Holden cruize b3902, no start
Holden Cruize, 2009, F18D Engine
The vehicle did not start since towed in, we had a look at the fault codes and identified the fault as a body control Module (BCM) fault
The vehicle had been to another mechanic and the client had told us that the vehicle needed a bcm, so we looked at the vehicle and found this to be true,
we ordered a lock set consistsing of 4 Parts
- Engine ECU
- BCM, body control module.
- Immobilser unit
- HVAC, heating, ventilation and Air conditioning module.
We looked for all the parts and replace with second hand units.
the vehicle then started but stalled 2 seconds later, you can rev the vehicle but 2 seconds later the vehicle will stall. We thought it had some thing to do with security as though run authority was not given, hence why when you insert the key and start it fast it would start but stall 2 second later.
We then decided to call every one we knew including dealers to ask about these cars and found a guy that would come out with a Current MDI program and program the units all together. After 2 and half hours past Ghreme our Holden tech guy, started the vehicle and we where left with a few fault codes, with stated;
- Electronic Brake Control Module, B3902, incorrect immobilizer identifier received.
- Body Control Module, B2575, Headlamps Control Ciruit. (left hand globe was out)
- Body Control Module, B3445, Stop Lamps Circuit (Left hand Globe was out)
- Instrument Cluster, B3902, incorrect immobilizer identifier received.
- Reomte Heater and Air conditioner Control, B3902, incorrect immobilizer identifier received.
After loking at these fault codes even with engine now starting and running, after several times, we where not sure why these would come up and now not be cleared even when we thought the programming was complete. We even reinstalled the original control modules and still the same fault codes could not be cleared.
By this time it was 8pm on a friday, we all wanted to go home, we decided to disconnected the battery after we found that the KM of distance travelled was now showing ‘—‘
After reconnecting that battery the vehicle would not start, even after we had carried out all the programming.
we left it for that night and i trawled the internet looking for some answers and found a GM TECH LINK site that showed
Marvelous GM Ideas :
By Blog Post on February 2, 2012 5:20 PM
Do not swap control modules. It’s a word of caution that bears repeating as more new GM models are introduced with the Global Architecture electrical system.
These models now include:
- 2012 Sonic and Verano (and, in Canada, Orlando)
- 2011-2012 Cruze and Volt
- 2010-2012 LaCrosse, Regal, SRX, Camaro, Equinox and Terrain
The Global Architecture electrical system does not allow control modules to be swapped between vehicles. Swapping control modules will result in a no start condition on both vehicles and will damage both modules due to the new vehicle security code protocol (environment).
Do not swap the following control modules:
- Engine Control Module (ECM)
- Body Control Module (BCM)
- Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM)
- Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM)
- Transmission Control Module (TCM)
- Electronic Climate Control (HVAC)
- Electric Power Steering
- Hybrid Powertrain Control Module
- Vehicle Communication Interface Module
- Instrument Panel Cluster
– Thanks to Ernest Haller
By Blog Post on September 1, 2010 5:15 PM
A no start condition may result from swapping an ECM or other module from one vehicle to another if the vehicles use the Global Architecture electrical system (Global A). Global A vehicles include 2010-2011 LaCrosse (U.S. and Canada), SRX, Camaro, Equinox, Terrain, and 2011 Regal and Cruze.
Swapping ECMs or other modules (including the BCM, EBCM, SDM, ECC, and IPC) on Global A vehicles will result in damaging both controllers and a no start condition will occur in both vehicles due to the new vehicle security code protocol (environment).
An overview of the Global Architecture electrical system and more information about the consequences of swapping modules was highlighted in the February 2010 edition of TechLink.
– Thanks to Ernest Haller
By Blog Post on February 1, 2010 12:00 AM
GM diagnostic strategy does not support the practice of swapping control modules during the course of diagnosis or in order to expedite a repair.
Features in today’s vehicles are increasingly software-configurable. They can affect vehicle safety systems, anti-theft systems, performance, and customer personalization information. Many current vehicles have one or more control modules that cannot be swapped. Additionally, models using the Global A electrical architecture (2010 Camaro, LaCrosse, Equinox, Terrain and SRX) will exhibit a variety of fault symptoms when certain control modules are swapped between vehicles. Swapping these security-related modules will cause difficult and time-consuming remediation processes that may include the purchase of new components for both vehicles.
On Global A models, some modules that traditionally have had nothing to do with starting a vehicle can inhibit starting if their ID doesn’t match what is stored in the BCM. For example, the SDM, HVAC, EBCM and IPC, among others, all have IDs that must match in order for the BCM to allow starting the engine. The control modules are coded to the vehicle when they are first programmed, which results in a unique ID being permanently stored in that module.
The swapping issue is not unique to Global A models however, and it is increasingly difficult to keep track of which control modules cannot be swapped because it can vary depending upon electrical architecture, model, model year, sales region, vehicle option content and configuration.
TIP: As far as causing issues in service, the new security scheme will not present any problems as long as control modules are not swapped.
Problems Resulting from Swapping
Problems can occur when a technician attempts to swap a control module configured for one vehicle into another during the course of diagnosis or in order to expedite a repair. Symptoms such as no-start conditions and DTCs that cannot be cleared are to be expected.
Problems also may be introduced into vehicles that exhibit no symptoms until a later date, adding to the complexity of diagnosing the vehicle. These “sleeper issues” may be triggered only after multiple key cycles or only after battery power has been removed from the BCM. Such issues can be time consuming for the technician and Technical Assistance Center (TAC) to rectify, driving up unnecessary warranty expense and leading to customer dissatisfaction.
TIP: Unlike some other modules, the radio should resume working normally once it is installed back into the vehicle from which it was taken.
Symptoms of Module Swapping
A variety of symptoms may appear in a Global A vehicle containing one or more control modules swapped from a like vehicle. Depending upon which control modules have been swapped, possible symptoms include:
The VIN read by GDS and SPS does not match the vehicle.
Current DTC B3902 – Incorrect IMMO ID Rec. set in IPC, SDM, ECM, HVAC, Steering Column Lock Control Module (if equipped) or BCM. There are no warning lamps or DIC messages and this DTC cannot be cleared.
IPC module displays (- – -) for odometer and trip odometer values.
Vehicle will enter power mode only if the key fobs that match the donor vehicle BCM are included in the swap.
BCM and/or ECM has current DTC B389A – Environment Identification. There is a Service Theft System message on the DIC, the Security MIL is illuminated and this DTC cannot be cleared.
ECM odometer value is incorrect for vehicle.
Radio displays Locked
– Thanks to Jeff Flood, Mark Haning and Kevin Fondaw
By Blog Post on February 1, 2010 12:00 AM
There are a number of security methods in operation in the vehicles built using the Global A electrical architecture, which include the 2010 Camaro, LaCrosse, Equinox, Terrain and SRX. Each method has a specific role. The following definitions are intended to provide an overview of these methods.
The purpose of the security code is to protect the vehicle’s security information against tampering.
The security code is a random code, unique to each vehicle, generated at the vehicle assembly plant. The assembly plant stores the security code and the corresponding VIN for each vehicle. A correct security code match is required to allow specific vehicle theft deterrent functions to be performed. An example of this function is the learning of new key fobs to the vehicle.
The purpose of the Environmental ID is to increase the time and complexity involved in attempting a vehicle theft by swapping control modules.
The Vehicle Theft Deterrent Feature provides the capability to detect if modules have been substituted, indicating a potential theft situation, and will not allow continued running of the engine in that case. The Immobilizer Master (BCM) identifies itself to the Vehicle Identification Devices (IPC, HVAC, BCM, ECM, SDM and SCLCM – if equipped). If the Immobilizer Master is recognized as correct, the Vehicle Identification Devices respond with specific environment identification.
The Immobilizer Master is required to receive a certain number of correct environment identifications in order to authorize the powertrain control module to allow normal engine operation. If the correct number is not received, even after retry, engine pre-release will expire and the engine will start, and then stall. The Security MIL and/or Driver Information Center will display an indication when the Vehicle Environment Identification check has not been successful.
Seed and Key
The purpose of Seed and Key is to protect certain control modules from unauthorized reprogramming when they are outside of the assembly plant environment.
Each control module that implements Seed and Key is manufactured with a unique seed value and a corresponding key value stored in memory. The seed is a value that is reported to a reprogramming tool. The reprogramming tool must know the matching key value to unlock the control module so that it can be programmed. The reprogramming tool then sends the matching key to the control module. If the key sent from the tool matches the key contained in the control module, then the tool is granted access to reprogram the control module or to send commands to put it in a re-learn mode for Vehicle Theft Deterrent.
There is no way to read the key value out of a control module. Secured functions can be performed only after successfully determining the key and sending it to the control module. If two incorrect keys are sent, the control module will not respond to another request for seed within 10 seconds. In addition, a control module will not respond to a request for seed within 10 seconds of the ignition turned on.
TIP: Importantly, seed and key and security code are not the same, and serve different purposes.
These modules involved in vehicle security are shown in the accompanying schematic. (Fig. 1)
Â· Body Control Module (BCM)
Â· Engine Control Module (ECM)
Â· Instrument Panel Control Module (IPC)
Â· Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning Module (HVAC)
Â· Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM)
Â· Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM)
Â· Steering Column Lock Control Module (SCLCM)
Although the radio is not part of the vehicle theft prevention system, the radio does have its own theft protection. The radio theft deterrent system is intended to disable or limit radio functionality if incorrect vehicle information is received by the radio.
The radio disables functionality if the VIN information received by the radio does not match the VIN information that has been learned by the radio. A possible cause of incorrect VIN information could be that the radio was originally installed in another vehicle. The radio in Global A vehicles cannot be swapped due to the inability to alter the VIN in a radio once it has been learned.
– Thanks to Jeff Flood, Mark Haning and Kevin Fondaw
By Blog Post on October 1, 2009 12:00 AM
With the recent arrivals of the 2010 Camaro, LaCrosse, Equinox, Terrain and SRX in dealerships, technicians have had their first experiences in diagnosing GM Global Architecture (Global A) vehicles using the new GM Global Diagnostic System (GDS). These vehicles do not permit Tech 2Â® communication for diagnostic purposes. (Fig. 1)
GDS is a PC-based diagnostic application that works with simple menu-driven commands using a standard WindowsÂ® interface on a Techline service PC. It takes advantage of the display and processing power of the PC to provide technicians with the ability to work with vehicle data in ways unavailable on the Tech 2. Technicians will be able to view much more data from many different perspectives along with an improved snapshot feature.
Several additional Global A vehicles will be introduced shortly that will also use GDS, including the Chevrolet Cruze, Buick Regal, Saab 9-5 and Saab 9-4X. The Multiple Diagnostic Interface (MDI) combined with GDS will be the diagnostic tool used on Global A vehicles, while other vehicles will continue to use the Tech 2, making both scan tools required diagnostic tools in the dealership.
TIP: When the Service Information instructs technicians to use a scan tool during diagnostic procedures, it does not reference a specific tool, such as the MDI/GDS or Tech 2. Technicians need to determine the proper scan tool to use based on the vehicle being serviced.
Global Electrical System
The Global A models using GDS are truly globally-designed vehicles. They are built around the world for several different markets. This requires vehicle systems to meet the requirements of varying regulations in different markets, some of which can have an effect on the way vehicles are typically diagnosed and serviced half-way around the world.
One recent issue experienced in dealerships may be a no start condition after swapping an ECM or other module from one Global A vehicle to another.
The Global A system does not allow controller swaps between vehicles. This includes these modules: ECM, BCM, EBCM, SDM, ECC and IPC.
If a module on a Global A vehicle is swapped out, it will result in a no start condition in both vehicles because the module security codes do not match.
In order to be ready to service the new 2010 Global A models, it’s recommended that the GDS application be downloaded and installed before Global A vehicles start arriving at the dealership.
GDS can be downloaded through TIS2Web by clicking on the GDS icon on the TIS2Web home page. The application must be loaded on each shop PC individually. Once installed, GDS can be launched from the PC desktop icon or from TIS2Web.
Also verify your MDI is configured for your dealership’s network and updated with the latest version of software. Updated MDI software is automatically downloaded to the PC through either SPS or GDS, but technicians need to update the MDI when prompted with the new software using the MDI Manager software application.
In addition, since the MDI is now being used as a diagnostic tool, as well as SPS, it may be beneficial to reassess how many MDIs your service department will require. Additional units can be ordered through 1-800-GM-TOOLS.
In order to take full advantage of PC-based vehicle diagnostics, notebook and tablet computers will provide technicians more mobility and efficiency by being able to perform diagnostics on a road test as well as reducing the amount of time spent going back and forth between the vehicle and a desktop PC. If your dealership is looking into purchasing additional computers — notebooks or desktops — be sure to review the latest recommended PC specs.
GDS Information and Training
Further GDS specifications and user training is available online.
Dealerships must ensure that their current IT infrastructure meets the GM specifications required for Techline applications. Updated specifications for efficiently running GDS are available at www.gmdesolutions.com. (In Canada, on GMGlobalConnect in the Service library under Tools and Processes and Equipment.)
Recommended specifications for a mobile computing device (notebook or tablet PC) for use when performing diagnostic procedures on the road is available at www.gmdesolutions.com. (In Canada, on GMGlobalConnect in the Service library under Tools and Processes and Equipment.)
GDS Familiarization training course 16048.26W provides an overview of the use of the MDI and GDS for diagnostics.
MDI Familiarization training course 16048.25W covers the operation of the MDI.
– Thanks to Matt Singer
By Blog Post on April 1, 2009 4:52 PM
This information applies to Colorado, Canyon, H3 and H3T.
Although technicians have sometimes swapped parts between vehicles to isolate service issues, with today’s technology, there are some parts you cannot swap. If you swap either the instrument panel cluster or BCM between vehicles, you can cause a number of PCM issues, as well as odometer issues and radio lock-ups.
Do not swap BCMs or instrument panel clusters between vehicles on a Colorado, Canyon or a Hummer H3. If a BCM or an instrument panel cluster needs to be replaced, use ONLY new SPO parts when replacing the BCM and utilize the Service Exchange Centers when replacing the instrument panel cluster.
– Thanks to Dino Poulos